Innocent

Wow I love the humour in the first chapter. The piece about the 'oak table' and the ' Armani dress code'.
The characters were brilliant and described well. I love the description of Gods face; 'His chin was too large and his nose was too beautiful, he was just like a child's painting.' I will keep that thought for a long time.
I read four or five chapters and I enjoyed everyone of them. Your writing was descriptive and humorous and it flowed well.
Great work. Unusual and interesting story. 6 stars.
Junetee( Four corners)

Splendid opening chapter - and odd pathos from Lucifer at the end - perhaps we are all the fallen angel? A terrific moment when God shows sympathy for the children of the 70s!

P

You might be on to something there, re/lucifer :) He is one of my fave characters to write about. Excellent perspective, I think. Thank you so much for taking the time to read !

Annastacia

Splendid opening chapter - and odd pathos from Lucifer at the end - perhaps we are all the fallen angel? A terrific moment when God shows sympathy for the children of the 70s!

P

Ann,

The story concept is intriguing to me, and you can clearly take this in many interesting directions. I found the idea of a personal meeting with God mind-stretching. I think readers would be hooked if you dropped the first three para's and started right in. Perhaps start with:

The Midland Hotel, Manchester England, 1983.

The fifty or so mortals, immortals, lesser deities and witnesses gathered in the meeting room in discomfort, as many of them lacked ...(include the rest of this para).
(continue with next para and the following paras)

In other words, launch right into the meeting, and then work in the background of the first three paras.

Just a thought. Good luck.
Payne

Hello Ann,

Have taken a look at your pitch. It is good. It paints a godly picture of God's plan for man's salvation.

Well, as so often happens, I’m the contrary view. Here’s the problem, as I see it: It’s mostly told as a synopsis.

You spend the first 938 words personally talking to the audience, giving them background. ''

This being my first draft, I expect I will need to tighten here and there - in some places more dramatically than others, but my only concern with what you have said is that - this is meant to be an introduction. And in my head, it was meant to be narrated, which would explain the voice you refer to.

'' And when you say, “The young ones wore headbands and leotards and something called leg-warmers,” you really mean in your neighborhood, because that’s not the style for the majority of humanity today.''

The beginning of the book is set in 1983 - hence the leotards and leg-warmers.

''In other words, in the story nothing is happening because the only one on stage is the narrator, and the narrator isn’t a character in the story. ''

No, that is because the narrator doesn't need to be someone in the story. The narrator narrates. It has crossed my mind to actually write it from the POV of someone attending the meeting, thus giving the narrator a face and such. Haven't decided yet. I like narrators though - that might be a problem, and I'm willing to tweak if it is actually a problem.

''Ask yourself why the reader needs to know all that?''

Because I'm setting a scene. I am illustrating through narration why God is dissatisfied, and the happenings that follow. Cause and effect.

''Another problem is that when you read that introduction you can hear your voice. You can see your expression change, and your hands as they gesture, to add emotion. You know where emphasis is added and where you hesitate and give a little shrug. You should, it’s your script. But does the reader who’s forced to guess at how you would read it? Probably not.''

This one confuses me. You say you can hear the voice (you assume its my voice, that may not be true) and I did intend for the personality of the narrator to come through. You are telling me those little gestures are coming through, but also that you were forced to guess at how I would read it? Or rather.. I guess, how the narrator would. If its coming through, I don't get where the force is coming from? I need more info here, please.

''And even when you talk about events in the conference room you’re still center stage, summing things up and adding personal comment. But it’s God who’s the protagonist. Shouldn’t he be center stage? Shouldn’t he be making the decisions and evaluating the crowd response?''

I concede this one, once the meeting gets underway, God is meant to be doing more of the emoting - but there will still be some narration, because this is still an introduction. I think I do need to fix this bit, make it flow better. There are points when the narration is necessary, such as when God leaves the room.

- - - - - - - - - - -

My question is now - have you read beyond the meeting? Because the introduction and narration ends with the end of the meeting, and the voice you are picking up on should disappear. Id really like to know what you think of the rest of the chapters, having no narration in them. That would be the true test. I say this, because I intended for this first bit, the meeting, to have the narration you are not enjoying. And if that is a problem, I am willing to work on that, because - if I burn people at the beginning, they wont read until the end. Which may have just happened with you. But I can fix that..I can change that narration easily, to match the rest of the book.

As ever, I'm here to learn. I'm not sure this manuscript is so intolerable that I need to go read more books on professional writing - I have read some, and I have done some creative writing workshops. I also read extensively, which is where a lot of the introduction comes from. I've been influenced greatly by authors like Doug Adams - who I feel used the same sort of narration occasionally. I've never read his work and felt his voice was getting in the way, but maybe I just liked his voice. Could be.

Thank you very much, though, for reading my story thus far. And for taking the time to critique it so deeply. It would be really helpful if you could tell me your thoughts on the rest of the chapters, but I understand if you don't have the time or desire.

cheers,
Annastacia

Hello Annastacia,

Really enjoyed reading this- just the right tone so the jokes aren't tiresome, which to my mind is not an easy thing to achieve with this kind of subject. The stuff with Lucifer was wonderful!

Happily backed!

Mel

I like the humour you have added e.g such things like God enjoying himself dressing up, and I like the mention of the greyest and rainiest place being Manchester! Your creative writing skills are excellent and I thoroughly enjoyed the end of chapter one, where God tells Lucifer he thinks theyre alike. I think its a great finish but was disappointed when I discovered there was no chapter two.

I like the humour you have added e.g such things like God enjoying himself dressing up, and I like the mention of the greyest and rainiest place being Manchester! Your creative writing skills are excellent and I thoroughly enjoyed the end of chapter one, where God tells Lucifer he thinks theyre alike. I think its a great finish but was disappointed when I discovered there was no chapter two.

I like the humour you have added e.g such things like God enjoying himself dressing up, and I like the mention of the greyest and rainiest place being Manchester! Your creative writing skills are excellent and I thoroughly enjoyed the end of chapter one, where God tells Lucifer he thinks theyre alike. I think its a great finish but was disappointed when I discovered there was no chapter two.

I like the humour you have added e.g such things like God enjoying himself dressing up, and I like the mention of the greyest and rainiest place being Manchester! Your creative writing skills are excellent and I thoroughly enjoyed the end of chapter one, where God tells Lucifer he thinks theyre alike. I think its a great finish but was disappointed when I discovered there was no chapter two.

Hi Annastacia, I love the way you paint your picture of God! I am a Christian, a catholic to be exact, and I think the description is spot on. I think you are right to compare the way He looks,' Like a childs' painting hung on a fridge door', because we can only see God through innocent eyes like those of a child.. I am still reading and will get back to you to tell you what else I think.

Hi Annastacia!

You have a very confident style, and you certainly paint a vivid and provocative picture. I have some questions, though, about potential audience.
If you have intended to write a Christian fantasy novel, I'm think many Christians will stop reading half-way through the prologue. The portrayal of a god "in man's image" is one that is unlikely to appeal to religious readers. But if your intended audience is areligious, they may be turned off by how religious your pitch sounds. They may not get to the part where a sympathetic Lucifer is introduced.
Keep in mind this is entirely my own thought. I could be way off on this, but I felt confused about where my sympathies were supposed to lie - with God or with the Devil?

Nick Kotar
Raven Son

Imaginative and creative. I was reminded of the opening bits of the Book of Job, where God and Satan place a wager on Job's reactions to his troubles. Do you know it? Your picture of God is very Old Testament, I would say - an interesting theological perspec tive, I would say. However, He DID say he would never again eliminate mankind after Noah emerged from the ark. Maybe you might allude to that earlier promise?
Good descriptions. Liked the humour in what I read too. I noticed a spelling mistake in Chapter 2: "mislead" instead of "misled".
Very interesting and entertaining. I'm giving it five stars at the moment, but may well selve it later when I have read more and have some room on my shelf.
All the best,
Clive Claon
"Sugar on Snow: A Boy's Memoir"

Hi Annastacia. Have just read the opening of Innocent and really enjoyed it. You’ve taken an oft used theme and given it an original twist. The narrative, dialogue and exposition are, on the whole, well done. I’ve outlined some thoughts, which I hope prove useful. Backed.
Pitch.
The pitch does what’s intended, outlining the novel in brief, giving the reader an insight to the story.
Chapter 1.
Weather systems were whipping across the seas, (whose) waves crashed against... I don’t think you need the bracketed word, it interrupts the flow of a fast paced sentence, slowing it down. Suggest: Weather systems were whipping across the seas, waves crashing against...
The opening paragraph: God looked down upon his creation... lost souls were spreading anger, hate, and confusion, is biblical, but with a modern twist. At first I wasn’t sure I wanted to continue, but when I did, I found myself becoming immersed in the view of the world you have created.
The modern biblical theme carries on in the next paragraph, as we progress through the 70’s and God’s hesitation between destroying the earth, or following Protocol. Again, I was intrigued and wanted to find out how this was going to turn out.
Then the reader finds themselves in Manchester, of all places, which made me grin. This “biblical” epic has overtones of the prosaic, in a good way. It enables the reader to identify with the “character” of God.
Syntax: There, in the Midland Hotel, they gathered... This seems a bit clunky, perhaps rejig along the lines of: They gathered in the Midland Hotel, a rather complicated mix of mortals...
Wordiness: Over fifty such beings had gathered and took their places (along) a great (long) table(,) which had convinced itself that it had been hewn from a single length of oak, but it wasn’t fooling anyone. Although I appreciate the humour in this sentence, it does run on. The words “along” and “long” are too alike, you’re missing the comma before “which”, thus not allowing the reader to take a “breath”. Suggest breaking it up along the lines of: Over fifty such beings had gathered. They took their places at a great table, which had convinced itself it had been hewn from a single length of oak. It wasn’t fooling anyone. The words “single length of oak” indicates, without actually stating it, that the table is both big and long.
To the (passer by)... the bracketed word should be one as in: To the passerby...
...with the shapely legs of a hill walker... How can we know this, if he’s wearing a suit?
Missing word: ...and God paused to nod in support (of) Himself.
Syntax: “Will not one of you speak?” “Will one of you not speak?”
Description: ...and filled his (faint) features with a shy warmth. I don’t really get the “faint”, what is this meant to convey, that his features are weak, undefined?
Punctuation: ...they will realise (...) as we all realise... I think the use of ellipses here is inappropriate. They’re usually used to indicate the fading away of words, or to indicate a pause or interruption. You can replace them with either commas, as in: they will realise, as we all realise, or dashes: they will realise – as we all realise –

Yeah......well now, where does one start. At first, I thought I had dropped into a rant, an ocean of diatribe. But soon, the surface broke, sun filtered through, and I found myself breathing readily. Possibly an original concept - I don't believe yet I've come across God in a business suit at a meeting in Manchester. At least not personally. But really, it's a variation on a theme. God amongst us ; God displeased ; God with a mercurial sense of humour - and so we have God in a business suit. ' The concept however is written with flair, though might be more dispassionate. In the introduction, you speak from above, a commentary on God's omnipotence - but then, interject occasionally, with things like ' if we are being fair' and ' if you could even consider them human any more'. The point of view is muddled. and sadly, I am reminded of you, the writer, when I should be thinking exclusively of the story you have written. In essence, a lack of detachment.
Nevertheless, some genuinley clever pieces - the descriptions are finely honed, some mannerisms are deftly caught.
But, to be candid, to straddle such a piece, finer brush strokes might be required...

Following your comments on my thread earlier, I thought I'd take a look.

I like it. The whole idea of God not being happy with his creation is something I have played with, and have just started a book on the subject (completely different take on yours, though).

I've only read the first four chapters, but what I have read I think works very well. The idea that God and Lucifer have a father and son relationship, almost Cat Stevens like, is a good one. I hope this continues in places through the rest of the book.

Happily backed.

Amusing and imaginative.

I liked the opening but wondered if a bit more biblical weight in the first paragraph would create a greater humorous contrast with the modern elements that come hot on its heels?

Another thought – I got to the end of chapter 6 and there was still no mention of Cate, who appears to be your lead character. Currently, from what I have read, the leads come across as God, Lucifer, Imogen and Cealan. Would it be sensible (and hook the reader in) to introduce some images of Cate in the earlier chapters?

I noted the odd typo like “sohose who remained aware” in chapter 1.

I hope the above musings are helpful.

J.S.Watts
A Darker Moon

Your musings are helpful! Yes, Cate seems to be a missing person at this point, I think because this is all before she comes unto the scene, this is more an introduction - and yes, Im well aware that maybe I need to bring her in a bit sooner, or else I need to rewrite my synopsis - my brain is churning about this currently, and I should have it figured out pretty soon. Its just all really important stuff in this intro, without which we would have a Cate without any reason for being and Id have to retrospect said reason for being. Which might not be smooth. Might be blah. We shall see!
Also the edited version should be up in a couple of days - so that should fix the horrid spelling mistakes, blerrgh...

Again, thank you - this really helps :)

Anna

Amusing and imaginative.

I liked the opening but wondered if a bit more biblical weight in the first paragraph would create a greater humorous contrast with the modern elements that come hot on its heels?

Another thought – I got to the end of chapter 6 and there was still no mention of Cate, who appears to be your lead character. Currently, from what I have read, the leads come across as God, Lucifer, Imogen and Cealan. Would it be sensible (and hook the reader in) to introduce some images of Cate in the earlier chapters?

I noted the odd typo like “sohose who remained aware” in chapter 1.

I hope the above musings are helpful.

J.S.Watts
A Darker Moon

...I'd normally 4read a Chapter, type comments and then move onto the next chapter, but fr me this was a moment for first impressions. I like the impact your trying to make but would go biblical on this - god looked down on his creation and he was not happy..... then perhaps break this down to.. and in the seas.. and in the forests.... and in the air... leave mankind out until the very end then dump the blame on us. Then that final line and god decided to call a meeting and he did.. make that the end of Chapter 1...

I like this idea, and Im going to play with it. The beginning was probably the hardest thing for me, and its already gone through a few transformations. There is a part of me which really enjoys the irony that it's in a human hotel - I should explain the reason for this. Chapter 1 is lead by God's whims. My idea of God is this witty, slightly childish, easily hurt and painfully cutting creature who has..well, whims. One of his whims is that he enjoys dressing up like a human, playing the scene out as humans would. Thats why it's in the hotel, so Im unsure if I can really take that aspect out, its too important to the character of God (and will be important in later books). But I like the idea of taking it into the biblical, adding that familiar drama. Thanks for that :)

...' Why 1983? - presume I'll discover later an careful with the population numbers, you may distract perfectionists who google and find the world population in 1983 - but you're right.'...

I did google, and Ill try to make sure the numbers add up - I dont want the wrath of the perfectionists lol. That is one of the things I will make sure is 100% right in the final mss. But why 1983? Hrmm. I dont know if I can answer that. Its just always started in 1983..maybe it has some importance to me that Im not aware of, I was 4 at the time in real life..maybe something happened when I was 4..I dunno! At the moment..it is relevant because..its just always been 1983 :)


...'The rest of this Chapter is equally as important looking back as that opening. You're taking on a very powerful subject here; some would even refuse to read it, but other will be drawn in with it's premise. For me that meeting did not work because it was on earth in a Manchester hotel - I felt cheated somehow. God's concerns understood, and mankinds role again understood, and the appearance of lucifer was excellent, and his questioning of God's judgement. All I liked. But holding this on earth I felt took away the impact I was expecting - could this be in purgatory? There would then be the souls awaiting judgment to join them. '...

This is something that gives me a buzz as much as buzzkill. I know that because of the content of the book - and trust me, it gets more powerful as it goes along.. - there will be a great majority of folk who will simply refuse to even touch the thing. It happened to Dan Brown... its happened to so many. But this is also a huge advertisement, for all those fellows who specifically read books that get banned, who hoist it up gladly and pronounce themselves heathens..or really just open minded, original thinkers. So..it could be very messy. It could be messy in a good way. This is life..man, what a ride. Again, Im sorry you're disappointed with the location of the scene, I would only hope the writing itself would be strong enough to push you to read on despite this :)

...'Ok enough. Chapter 2 and much better. We've a debate between God and lucifer, that works, and God forbid, Lucifer is his son! This has a neat intellectual tweak to it - he must have come from somewhere and would be a creation of god who made everything.'...

Lucifer..in my opinion, is one of the best characters in the story. He is the morning star, the fallen, the most beautiful angel in Heaven who pushes God's buttons. A lot of people liken him to Satan, twist the two into the same being..but not in my book :) Wait and see. I really..really enjoy writing from his perspective.

...'I've read all 6 Chapters and have no serious issues with the writing that normal editing wont tighten. There's some neat humour here and certainly an intellectual pull based on the subject matter with an excellent story with real promise. It's the format you've used to present it that didn't quite make it work for me. Step away from the earth for this debate over the future of mankind is my advice and that would not take much re writing. Do not change anything unless you've heard from others though and are certain. I'll give this some shelf time for the story. Best. Steve.'...

Steve, you jewel. You really worked hard for me. This wasn't your cup of tea, and you threw your neck back and took it anyway, I'm seriously proud. I have LOVED reading this critique, thank you so much for your honesty and for your really creative suggestions. As I always say, I'm not here to have my head patted - I'm here to grow, to learn, and to make my book as strong as it can be by feeding it with what I graze on here. You help make that possible :) I will be putting up more chapters soon..what I've put down here is 11k - I've got 55k written currently, and I want to edit those chapters slightly before putting them up. But I hope that what you've read just now might inspire you to try the rest of Innocent on, if only to find out what happens :) Thanks again!

Annastacia

Anastacia - the read I promised from the thread. I've no literary training nor ever published so feel free to deal with these comments as you wish. Final point I'm not usually a reader of the fantasy genre but have been known to enjoy the odd book.

I'd normally 4read a Chapter, type comments and then move onto the next chapter, but fr me this was a moment for first impressions. I like the impact your trying to make but would go biblical on this - god looked down on his creation and he was not happy..... then perhaps break this down to.. and in the seas.. and in the forests.... and in the air... leave mankind out until the very end then dump the blame on us. Then that final line and god decided to call a meeting and he did.. make that the end of Chapter 1.

That isn't a dislike, just my thoughts. I trust I sensed your intent but felt a slower build more biblical in writing and proportions would make this a very powerful opening. Why 1983? - presume I'll discover later an careful with the population numbers, you may distract perfectionists who google and find the world population in 1983 - but you're right.

Continuing to the meeting itself and you've clearly decided to inject humour yourself - the platypus moment is as much for them as for us, and the reference to the Armani suit. Thats working. Writing itself is smooth and I've seen no typos not grammar suggestions. Story is building and you've some good descriptive passages to support that.

The rest of this Chapter is equally as important looking back as that opening. You're taking on a very powerful subject here; some would even refuse to read it, but other will be drawn in with it's premise. For me that meeting did not work because it was on earth in a Manchester hotel - I felt cheated somehow. God's concerns understood, and mankinds role again understood, and the appearance of lucifer was excellent, and his questioning of God's judgement. All I liked. But holding this on earth I felt took away the impact I was expecting - could this be in purgatory? There would then be the souls awaiting judgment to join them.

Ok enough. Chapter 2 and much better. We've a debate between God and lucifer, that works, and God forbid, Lucifer is his son! This has a neat intellectual tweak to it - he must have come from somewhere and would be a creation of god who made everything.

Chapter 3 - not for me because humans are there but Chapter 4 yes. Rather than mingle humans with the heavens juxtapose them into separate Chapters, the only link being this one person who'll later appear in human form. That synopsis had just enough to pull me.

I've read all 6 Chapters and have no serious issues with the writing that normal editing wont tighten. There's some neat humour here and certainly an intellectual pull based on the subject matter with an excellent story with real promise. It's the format you've used to present it that didn't quite make it work for me. Step away from the earth for this debate over the future of mankind is my advice and that would not take much re writing. Do not change anything unless you've heard from others though and are certain. I'll give this some shelf time for the story. Best. Steve.

Thank you for your support, Liz :)

Imaginative and talented writing. Backed.

Liz
The Cheech Room

Imaginative and talented writing. Backed.

Liz
The Cheech Room