"This is, of course, in contrast to other DIY endeavors. You form a band and put out a record yourself, well, you’re indie. You’re doing it your way. Put out a film, you’re a DIY filmmaker, an independent artist, a guy who couldn’t be pinned down by the Hollywood system. You self-publish a book, and the first thought out of the gate is, “He wasn’t good enough to get it published. Let’s be honest — it’s probably just word poop.”

This is in part because it’s a lot harder to put an album or a film out into the world. You don’t just vomit it forth. Some modicum of talent and skill must be present to even contemplate such an endeavor and to attain any kind of distribution. The self-publishing community has no such restriction. It is blissfully easy to be self-published. I could take this blog post, put it up on the Amazon Kindle store and in 24 hours you could download it for ninety-nine cents. It’s like being allowed to make my own clothing line out of burlap and pubic hair and being allowed to hang it on the racks at J.C. Penney."

http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2011/02/02/why-your-self-published-book-sucks-a-bag-of-dicks/

This is what puts me off Kindle books (that aren't also published traditionally).

What do others think? Will Kindle self-publishing ever gain respect, when anyone can chuck a book up?

Posted: 10/09/2011 10:14:43

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"This is, of course, in contrast to other DIY endeavors. You form a band and put out a record yourself, well, you’re indie. You’re doing it your way. Put out a film, you’re a DIY filmmaker, an independent artist, a guy who couldn’t be pinned down by the Hollywood system. You self-publish a book, and the first thought out of the gate is, “He wasn’t good enough to get it published. Let’s be honest — it’s probably just word poop.”

This is in part because it’s a lot harder to put an album or a film out into the world. You don’t just vomit it forth. Some modicum of talent and skill must be present to even contemplate such an endeavor and to attain any kind of distribution. The self-publishing community has no such restriction. It is blissfully easy to be self-published. I could take this blog post, put it up on the Amazon Kindle store and in 24 hours you could download it for ninety-nine cents. It’s like being allowed to make my own clothing line out of burlap and pubic hair and being allowed to hang it on the racks at J.C. Penney."

http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2011/02/02/why-your-self-published-book-sucks-a-bag-of-dicks/

This is what puts me off Kindle books (that aren't also published traditionally).

What do others think? Will Kindle self-publishing ever gain respect, when anyone can chuck a book up?

You could take this blog post and publish it, and so what? Who would buy it? Please do it right now, and let's see how much money you make. Shit sinks... usually. If it has no value to any reader, it won't make money. I'm willing to bet that this blog post won't make money.

Self-publishing is based on the radical notion, that the reading public determine the value of a book not gatekeepers, not the agent, not the New York Times Review. And you know what, cream rises, shit sinks... usually. Authonomy is a perfect example of this. For all the aggravations of its popularity contest model, for the most part, the books that reach ED desk are worth taking a look at.

Does it matter if Kindle publishing never gains respect? No. I don't understand the need for respect from everyone else but the paying reader. Isn't the fans who buy and read your book, and wait with bated breath over for next ebook enough for that the warm and fuzzy feeling of respect? 99% of writers will be rejected by trad publishers. Of the 1% that publish, only a handful make a living out of writing. Many writers do not make enough royalties to earn out their advances. Now tell me what is this respect when people don't care for your Industry-backed book?

Well of course you can harp about the many self-published books that need a great deal of editing and why you would never buy those books. But the average reader (you are not the average because you're a writer) have proven time and time again, that they are willing to forgive inferior editing if the story is a good read. Amanda hocking made her success over books that badly needed an editor. It is a testament to the talent of the writer that their books draw readers despite clunky prose and grammar errors.

Anyone can self-publish but only good writers make money. Many writers have stopped crying over rejections letters and self-published with moderate to overwhelming success. In the end, if writers have an easier route to connect with their readers, what else matters? Concerns about prestige seem to me utterly irrelevant.

Posted: 10/09/2011 11:06:36

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I dunno

I just wrote a lot of early morning nonsense speculating and then decided to delete it.

Que sera sera.

Posted: 10/09/2011 11:51:32

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You could take this blog post and publish it, and so what? Who would buy it? Please do it right now, and let's see how much money you make. Shit sinks... usually. If it has no value to any reader, it won't make money. I'm willing to bet that this blog post won't make money.

Self-publishing is based on the radical notion, that the reading public determine the value of a book not gatekeepers, not the agent, not the New York Times Review. And you know what, cream rises, shit sinks... usually. Authonomy is a perfect example of this. For all the aggravations of its popularity contest model, for the most part, the books that reach ED desk are worth taking a look at.

Does it matter if Kindle publishing never gains respect? No. I don't understand the need for respect from everyone else but the paying reader. Isn't the fans who buy and read your book, and wait with bated breath over for next ebook enough for that the warm and fuzzy feeling of respect? 99% of writers will be rejected by trad publishers. Of the 1% that publish, only a handful make a living out of writing. Many writers do not make enough royalties to earn out their advances. Now tell me what is this respect when people don't care for your Industry-backed book?

Well of course you can harp about the many self-published books that need a great deal of editing and why you would never buy those books. But the average reader (you are not the average because you're a writer) have proven time and time again, that they are willing to forgive inferior editing if the story is a good read. Amanda hocking made her success over books that badly needed an editor. It is a testament to the talent of the writer that their books draw readers despite clunky prose and grammar errors.

Anyone can self-publish but only good writers make money. Many writers have stopped crying over rejections letters and self-published with moderate to overwhelming success. In the end, if writers have an easier route to connect with their readers, what else matters? Concerns about prestige seem to me utterly irrelevant.

Glad you spoke up. I agree entirely. Self-respect comes from within. There are a lot of self-respecting authors who have done extremely well on Kindle, not only in sales but in their enjoyment, of the outcome. It took sometimes blood sweat and tears, often disappointment but many had a strong enough backbone to see it through and reaped the rewards. The main ones being -self-respect for one's own efforts, one's book and one's aspirations.



Posted: 10/09/2011 12:02:40

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If the quality isn't there, it's poorly edited or formatted, or indeed if it's pure dross, there's a 'return' option when the sale will be cancelled. Everyone gets them, about three in every thousand sales for my books which is easily explained by the 'clicked wrong button' brigade. The alternative -a reader who hates my book - doesn't bear thinking about.

I've had books on Kindle for the whole of 2011. Been in the top ten, all books, at one stage and have sold thousands of books, all without what anyone else would call a marketing strategy. My idea of marketing - benign neglect - is the only system I use. I'd agree there's books on Kindle that lack quality, but I've bought best sellers in the past which left me equally underwhelmed.

Kindle won't suit everyone, but anyone can do it and if your books are out there, who knows what could happen? How about thousands of strangers from all over the world reading your book? It's a massive boost to the confidence of any writer, feeble specimens that we are.

Posted: 10/09/2011 12:35:43

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If the quality isn't there, it's poorly edited or formatted, or indeed if it's pure dross, there's a 'return' option when the sale will be cancelled. Everyone gets them, about three in every thousand sales for my books which is easily explained by the 'clicked wrong button' brigade. The alternative -a reader who hates my book - doesn't bear thinking about.

I've had books on Kindle for the whole of 2011. Been in the top ten, all books, at one stage and have sold thousands of books, all without what anyone else would call a marketing strategy. My idea of marketing - benign neglect - is the only system I use. I'd agree there's books on Kindle that lack quality, but I've bought best sellers in the past which left me equally underwhelmed.

Kindle won't suit everyone, but anyone can do it and if your books are out there, who knows what could happen? How about thousands of strangers from all over the world reading your book? It's a massive boost to the confidence of any writer, feeble specimens that we are.

It's all about the readers in the end

Is someone published by the big 6 who gets 'x' sales superior to a self publisher who has sold more?

If so, on what basis?

You gain respect by being true to yourself. To be honest, if you have self-respect no one can take it away from you.


Posted: 10/09/2011 13:24:48
Last Edit: 10/09/2011 13:27:54 by John Booth

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There is a lot of strong feeling around this, I see. However, I am first and foremost a reader and when I buy a book I expect a minimum standard of writing/ presentation. It has nothing to do with being a writer.

My partner loves what I call 'trashy' fiction and he has downloaded a couple of the Stephen Leather books - he read the first one, but never did finish the next one. He admitted it was the shock factor - gratuitous sex and violence that made him buy no.2, but as that was all they really had going for them, he soon got bored. I persuaded him to give the Book Thief a go (he thinks literary fiction is up its own arse), however he is hooked because it has so many layers and has opened his eyes to the fact well written fiction does not mean plotless (that is just poorly written fiction, masquerading as literary).

So though I understand the defence of Kindle publishing, I think the lack of any quality control is going to turn off a lot of readers. Particularly if the ratio of poo to good, tips too far.

I buy lots of books on Kindle, but tend to search for a specific title (on recommendation), having downloaded a number of self published that have petered out in the middle or had really unsatisfying endings. These books were typo free, well written etc, they just needed the input of an editor to tighten the story.

I have nothing against self-publishing, but I really believe authors still need to use editors and copy editors if they are going to produce books of the quality that can compete with mainstream publishing.

Posted: 10/09/2011 13:38:28
Last Edit: 10/09/2011 13:48:37 by Jake Rowan

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I am self published, and I believe, other than the dollar or pound signs, there is nothing different between self published authors and traditionally published, I have seen traditionally pubbed books full of formatting errors, typos and grammar errors on every page. I've also seen fantastically well written self published work, with little or no typos, and pretty much error free.

For me, its the face of people who come to visit me, when they say they loved my work and can't wait for the rest of the series, they want their books signed. I think wow, I've really, truly made a difference in someones life, I've made somebody happy, that more than the money, more than the bragging rights means the most to me. I think back to four years ago, before this rollercoaster ride ever happened, I have come a long long way in a short time, and I am eternally grateful.

And that's great, but I notice on your profile page, you are still looking for both an agent and publisher - or is that old news?

There is a problem that anyone can write a book with very little financial outlay.

Posted: 10/09/2011 13:47:07

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Readers with ereaders will get very good at sorting the good from the bad writers who self publish.
It's good for readers because they have choices that they didn't have before.

Posted: 10/09/2011 13:53:46

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I think many are working through outcome (the almighty dollar) and have lost the joy in their talent because of the self-imposed stress of trying to massage their egos in the hope that others will love them enough to hand over money for their work. They've lost the joy in just doing the work and have joined the club, along with millions of others who have allowed themselves to be brainwashed by the scam artists and who seriously need to work on their self-worth and start enjoying themselves and their art purely for the joy it brings them. I'm not knocking flogging your stuff, but why be bothered about what anyone thinks about you or how you go about shaing? it's none of your business......

Well said that man.

Posted: 10/09/2011 14:09:17

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